One must crawl before one can walk

"Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D."

...

Vinod,

The soul as a bundle of consciousness is self aware also like the universal consciousness.  In Samadhi state, which you often mention, the soul is not inert, it is conscious; conscious of itself even if it does not see anything else.  In other states, when the soul identifies itself with a body and its mind, it does not know its real nature and considers itself limited as if in a bondage.  Even in ordinary lives the individual consciousness (ego?) appears to know whatever it is doing and its own existence, etc. So, I do not see why you say "The "seer" due to it being "seer: of everything can't see itself".

Syamala

On Wednesday, May 29, 2019, 1:15:05 AM CDT, VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL wrote:

Rosie,

Let me add that soul as a bundle of consciousness can never be seen since soul or consciousness itself is the "seer" of everything. The "seer" due to it being "seer: of everything can't see itself. Hereby the word "seer" is not limited to the process of seeing using the sense organs of eyes. But the word "seer" has an extended meaning of "knowing/experiencing" anything thru perceptual ability using 5 sense organs or thru the cognitive ability.

So what is seen by the medium? It is the astral body with soul encompassed in it which is seen by the medium. The Astral body can be seen in different colors, shapes, sizes, structures, and configurations. The astral body, at the will of the conscious soul, can assume any shape/size/colour.

Vinod Sehgal

On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 3:36 AM 'Ram Lakhan Pandey Vimal' via Scientific Basis of Consciousness wrote:

Hi Rosie,

It is indeed interesting, but what are the scientific evidence, mechanism, and metaphysics (dualism, idealism, materialism, or dual-aspect monism) behind it?

Cheers!

Kind regards,

Rām

Rām Lakhan Pāndey Vimal, Ph.D.

Amarāvati-Hīrāmaṇi Professor (Research)

Vision Research Institute Inc, Physics, Neuroscience, & Consciousness Research Dept.

25 Rita Street, Lowell, MA 01854 USA

Ph: +1 978 954 7522; eFAX: +1 440 388 7907

rlpvimal@yahoo.co.in; http://sites.google.com/site/rlpvimal/Home

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ram_Lakhan_Pandey_Vimal 

Researched at the University of Chicago and Harvard Medical Schools

On Tuesday, 28 May, 2019, 3:59:57 pm GMT-4, Rosemary Rock-Evans wrote:

Well Ram, this may be of interest to you - you may have to share heaven with the immortal souls of spiders...

And Randi, it may help you too, as here are two cases where a medium sees the immortal soul of animals

https://allaboutheaven.org/observations/ernesto_bozzano_professor_-_the_parapsychological_manifestations_of_animals_%E2%80%93_43_the_death_of_a_spider_results_in_its_spirit_being_seen_flying_away_by_a_medium/221

rosie

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"Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." group. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga

To view this discussion https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/695289015.255215.1559616053607%40mail.yahoo.com

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Hi Deepak, Irad, and Whit,

Interesting discussion. Perhaps, we can make further progress on the life-after-death issue with the following experiments. 

Deepak: Did Sadhguru mention that he has "seen"/experienced the other side of the iron-wall where science cannot yet penetrate? He also seems to mention that he was declared dead/brain-dead during a meditation-related experiment, which may imply he had no detectable NCC during his Samadhi state and he was out of his brain-body. If so, then he may be an important subject in the following experiments. [...]

From Sections 3.8.13.5 of (Vimal, 2016b) and 3.19.10 of (Vimal, 2016c), the working hypothesis and the three experiments on OOO-God theory are as follows:

A working hypothesis is as follows:

No mental entity (such as astral body, causal body, soul/Self, or God) is beyond our mind-brain-body system. It appears beyond only through the incompleteness of our knowledge such as related to the out-of-body experience (OBE). A complete knowledge must include the fact that an OBE has a neural-physical basis. Thus, enlightened yogis, mystics, and people who propose life-after-death appear to disregard the knowledge related to neuroscience that all experiences, including 21 astral entities seen in Savikalpa Samādhi (NS) state by Swami Yogeshwaranand Paramhansa (SYP) (Swāmi Yogeshwarānanda Paramhans, 1997, 2008) and OBEs at Nirvikalpa Samādhi (NS) state, have their respective neural bases and all mental entities are within the scope of mind-brain systems. [...]

Cheers!

Kind regards,

Rām

On Mon, Jun 03, 2019 at 09:07:12AM -0400, Irad Bernstein wrote:

> [DC] Right now everyone’s allegiance is split. We identify with our bodies some

> of the time and with our minds the rest of the time.

> 

> [I] Our thoughts are just as natural as the cells in our body, and as real.

> There is no split between the mental, the spiritual, and the physical. If you

> think so, you do not sufficiently understand the spirituality of the flesh or

> the physical reality of your thought. 

Irad,

"Natural" compared to what? I look out the window. The trees on the hill are

natural; our houses are constructed. Our houses are constructed of natural

materials; but the construction is based in human culture. 

Our minds, our thoughts, are to an important degree more like our homes than

the wild woods. Even to the degree they are alive and growing, unlike the

tree parts which are the walls of my house, it is in important ways a

cultured growth, dependent as agriculture is on the cultivator. 

There is, though, an irony in the common claim that the physical world is

deterministic, while our minds introduce freedom. Contrast that with the

medieval concept that it is our bodies which are wild, and our minds

responsible for disciplined restraint. 

In any case, where the cells in our body are natural, thoughts, being of

mind, and dependent on our cultures, are quite another thing. Those raised

by wolves do not, reportedly, have thoughts as we do. Their cells are

indistinguishable from ours though.

Best,

Whit

...

And there may have been earlier invasions of which we have not found records. As I commented to Adam Kun earlier today, the Cryogenic Period (with Snowball Earth) may have obliterated both them and their remains.

Continued tomorrow.

Peter Nyikos

...

Yes, David, but when it came to the venerable Linnean classification scheme as refined by great naturalists like Alfred Romer, you became very intolerant about the degrees of uncertainty that it coped with very well indeed. 

I'll have more to say about your actual words in my next installment to the series of answers that you gave to some questions of mine about the riddles of macroevolution.  

Peter Nyikos

...

David: 

If all you are interested in is increasingly accurate phylogenetic trees, then I have no quarrel with you. My quarrel is with those victors of "the cladist wars" who are working to abolish the Linnean classification altogether. 

I would dearly love to see a history of those wars. My only real glimpse into their workings is the salmon-lungfish-cow debate, and the two accounts of it that I have seen -- one by Henry Gee and the other by the author of an otherwise wonderful book on the coelacanth Latimeria - - are so inept that I suspect that the victory was totally undeserved. And these two are foursquare on the side of the victors. The wars, I suspect, were over before the traditional systematists knew what hit them. 

Their victory is not yet complete: Kardong  actually gave more space to an outline of the Linnean classification of Chordata than to the cladistic in an appendix to his 2012 edition of his textbook that is used here for the course in Comparative Vertebrate Anatomy.

It is of inestimable value pedagogically to have animals broken down into phyla. There is an old educational adage, "One must crawl before one can walk."  Elementary school children can easily learn about the main ones  to the point where they can easily tell which of the following a given animal belongs to: Cnidaria, Echinodermata, Chordata, Mollusca, Arthropoda.  And  I doubt that any anatomist  worth his salt would confuse a living member of one phylum with another. 

...

Irrationality is very much part of the uniqueness of our inner cosmos, as is our rationality. Instead of playing one against the other our irrationality can be managed and rituals play an important role in it.  https://t.co/wT939wJUao via @swarajyamag

https://twitter.com/arvindneela/status/1136506585491001344?s=19

Just a very humble suggestion: Every Hindutvaite should familiarize oneself with 

a) works of Vivekananda, Sri Aurobindo, Savarkar, Gandhi and Ambedkar

b) works of Carl Sagan, Fritjof Capra (not just 'Tao of Physics'), Michael Shermer and James Randi -particularly ministers.

https://twitter.com/arvindneela/status/1135729657301495808?s=19

Carl Sagan and Michael Shermer and Randi for immunizing themselves against pseudo-science peddlers and also to save us from getting embarrassed by our leaders talking 'ancient-alien' type nonsense.

is this what Stephen Jay Gould calls NOMA- Non overlapping magisteria? 

Problem is how do we switch between the 2 modes of thinking? Eg see the irrational "anti-vaccination" movement in the US & Pakistan which could cause a serious health hazard

https://twitter.com/ChandhokHursh/status/1136510257558167552?s=19

I have not read him but many perceptive persons are recommending the books by Nigurananda (Professor Sachidananda Sarkar). You may check. There would be many others like him.

https://twitter.com/NathTusar/status/1139376396042588171?s=19

Plain & Simple: A non-fiction novel about Auroville https://t.co/CqBX0uqINP

Savitri Era Learning Forum: Aesthetics like nutrition should seek the right-mix https://t.co/yO1kstnTKy

Reimagining and Refashioning Integral Management - Tusar Nath Mohapatra, Savitri Era Learning Forum (SELF) Ghaziabad https://t.co/YGoEhdLyp7