Quest for a historical core for puranas is futile

Assorted tweets:

We could cite the example of Deen Dayal Upadhyaya here. Upadhyaya obviously has his champions on the right, but he has never been absolutely assimilated into the saffron nationalist pantheon where the likes of Savarkar and Golwalkar rest.

Can ‘cold’ constitutional values like fraternity, secularism, liberty ever quell the rage that hatred and nationalism have fomented on the streets, and chill this propensity toward violence?

Love, for example, even tolerant inclusion, is extremely difficult to vernacularise. And yet we have no alternative other than vernacularising our basic constitutional values, of championing sadhbhavana, ahimsa, and a related basket of concepts that may contain more heat, more passion. It’s a tall order to make fraternity, love politically organic. But inclusive concepts — ideological and not ethno-racial — must occupy the mental and spiritual space currently monopolised by exclusive ones.

India and the Indian: Will we never be able to achieve consensus on being legitimately Indian, writes Aakash Singh Rathore https://t.co/MSBIiV2KGK

https://twitter.com/aakash_ironman/status/1144812508332433408?s=19

A very cool collage of my book covers over the last decade. I’ve been lucky to have great designers.

#books #bookworm #booklover #bookshelf #bookclub #reader #readmore #booklovers #published #bookpic #booktography #bookwormfeature #reading #readerlife #bibliophile #bookishthings https://t.co/fMhQcF0qHm

https://twitter.com/aakash_ironman/status/1145311357408952320?s=19

Caste adapts to changing state technologies and political economy, but remains a total social fact, organising every realm of Indian life: legal, economic and political, religious, aesthetic and cultural. This is not to minimise the pernicious nature of colonialism, or ...

Caste Wasn't a British Construct – and Anyone Who Studies History Should Know That https://t.co/58MN36TbHd via @thewire_in

https://twitter.com/svaradarajan/status/1145332082568077315?s=19

Let Gandhi be our guide to show how not to hate in Ram’s name https://t.co/Jn2ZXwhXVR

https://twitter.com/TOIOpinion/status/1145072337483472896?s=19

Hate and and violence in the name of Ram does unconscionable damage not only  to democracy but also to  India’s religious traditions. My take https://t.co/bFnIn1S2sL

https://twitter.com/sagarikaghose/status/1145326299180724224?s=19

There’s nothing wrong with taking a dim view of Aurangzeb or Tipu Sultan if that’s your thing. The problem arises when you start imagining that your Muslim neighbour owes you an explanation for them. [Reup] https://t.co/W3nxddeC6b

https://twitter.com/dhume/status/1144967452171952130?s=19

My piece. Serve Allah, marry a Hindu or wear a burkha, stop profiling Muslim women https://t.co/ZgtHJ6JpKu

https://twitter.com/_sabanaqvi/status/1145325389201330176?s=19

My column on the transformation from Ram Ram and the feminine first Siya Ram to the masculine aggressive Jai SHRI RAM.... https://t.co/hKmjG86Gnh

https://twitter.com/_sabanaqvi/status/1145154831767822341?s=19

In their bid to undermine Arif Mohammed Khan, the intellectual Maulanas have only proved the accuracy of Khan’s assessment. https://t.co/POAro42fQp

https://twitter.com/OpIndia_com/status/1145308501528334336?s=19

The Liberal-Islamist alliance is rattled by Arif Mohammad Khan. The reason is because ⁦@RifatJawaid⁩ type pseudo-liberals are totally regressive, intolerant and hate the Truth, even as they practise misogyny. ⁦@arifmohammadk⁩ exposes them.  https://t.co/Xqjm0peF0t

https://twitter.com/Sanjay_Dixit/status/1145322935768403973?s=19

Arif Mohammad Khan is playing a harmful game. He is creating the false perception that plight of Muslims is somehow their own fault. Then by creating terms like Deobandi Fundamentalism - straight out of RW playbook - he is giving talking points for badgering the community more

https://twitter.com/AdityaMenon22/status/1144485019810820099?s=19

Do yourself a favor, please watch Article 15. @ayushmannk is amazing and so is @Mdzeeshanayyub !! Take a bow @anubhavsinha not many have the guts to make such a movie! You should know the hall in my small town in TN was almost full and the audience couldn't stop clapping !

https://twitter.com/vakeel_saheba/status/1145322028330672128?s=19

Despite raking up billions, #KabirSingh reopens the debate over normalization of #rape culture and toxic behavior portrayed in #Indiancinema, reports @sehgal106. #India #movies #ToxicMasculinity https://t.co/TOnTLcHvF9

https://twitter.com/AsiaTimes_In/status/1145309242728968192?s=19

"Don’t look for role models or measures of success in the displeasure of Allah" https://t.co/yg8PmzWZus

https://twitter.com/SwarajyaMag/status/1145312024710094848?s=19

Why should she publicise it. its between her and her Allah. It’s like wanting to draw more attention to oneself, instead of trying to move away from attention and false popularity. Those who give up worldly things do it silently & in peace. https://t.co/5kgrAA0K36

https://twitter.com/shahid_siddiqui/status/1145311054651543553?s=19

Brought up on a dose of false knowledge as a believer, you always live in the dread of eternal hell. Anxiety gets more acute when told that you have just one life and an eternal afterlife. @ZairaWasimmm dropped burqa and had a Hindu BF in Secret Superstar, so got hounded by Ms https://t.co/gPnesOCuLw

https://twitter.com/Sanjay_Dixit/status/1145302683688898566?s=19

The usual suspects who are butthurt after seeing Nusrat’s sindoor, are drawing a false equivalence between Zaira Wasim & Nusrat Jahan. While Nusrat is clearly enjoying the marital bliss, Wasim is trying to pollute young minds interested in art, by making it look like a bad thing.

https://twitter.com/AsYouNotWish/status/1145290356704985089?s=19

#TIL that Gibbon’s seminal treatise on the decline of the Roman Empire was on the Catholic Church’s list of “prohibited books” because he had squarely laid the blame of the downfall on Christianity..on the indifference of Christian Romans to tend to material needs of Empire

https://twitter.com/sabeaux/status/1145304156099371008?s=19

Didn’t know this about the Life of Brian, either.. https://t.co/uJI8LhC6ad

"More than 30 years and an entire political and economic system away from Chernobyl, we are watching many of our political and economic leaders lie about climate change, as if untruth has some new power to stop physics." Great piece by @brdemuth, must read https://t.co/mu2njw7gsj

https://twitter.com/GhoshAmitav/status/1145313781821648898?s=19

'It beckons you, holds you by your lapels and shakes you till you are ready to open your eyes. For this book is an awakening for the world.' @Ttindia on @GhoshAmitav's bestselling new novel GUN ISLAND.  https://t.co/XairRlOFVC

https://twitter.com/MeruGokhale/status/1145223618005127168?s=19

The #Anthropocene is about more than #climatechange. It is about an entire system of life, designed to maximise resource extraction at the expense of expendable ‘Others’; a global system of racism emerging from the legacy of centuries of colonialism. https://t.co/eldJt7tL0v

https://twitter.com/NafeezAhmed/status/1144278006598459392?s=19

Aryan Race & Hindu Fascism: @RajivMessage dismantles Romila Thapar in this series titled 'Decolonizing Romila Thapar' - do notice how she speaks only within her close cartel club, and never debates her positions. She refused an invite to @JaipurDialogues https://t.co/obZhJuvC4C

https://twitter.com/Sanjay_Dixit/status/1144200752937627648?s=19

Read a comment to the effect that using the term “myths” means that the person has no faith & should be committed to an asylum. By that logic, many great AcAryas would be worthy of being committed for holding that myths reflect certain truths outside historical time & space.

https://twitter.com/GhorAngirasa/status/1145278248437219329?s=19

A huge consequence of technological egalitarianism (equal access to technology/resources) is that individuals of very mediocre abilities watch a few videos of famous Hindutva tweeple, get all woke & go around giving their useless opinions on complex theological issues.

Unpopular opinion: Forming opinions & arguments on Hindu theological issues should never be a democratic, free-for-all process. There should be a diversity of opinions, yes; but from a small group of intelligent people. Unfortunately, we can’t enforce that here.

The idea that historical actuality of scripture is essential in order for scriptures/traditions to have any worth/value is shared by both abrahamisms & modern atheism.

By Liam Jerrold Fraser in "The Secret Sympathy: New Atheism, Protestant Fundamentalism, and Evolution": https://t.co/ErZgwQ4LKP

https://twitter.com/Shakra_Kulish/status/1145368930254352384?s=19

I remember a discussion we once had, long ago, on the traditional dating of the Mahabharata and BB Lal's. Am I to assume you have changed your stance?

https://twitter.com/ArmchairPseph/status/1145351790499491841?s=19

My POV is a somewhat nuanced one, the quest for a historical core is futile both in terms of spiritual value and in terms of whether finding it is possible, but we should not assert literalism above the proof of pratyaksha pramana, that is anti tradition

Pointless apoptotic discussions about the historicity, veracity of "Myths" in purANas, shruti, smriti. Personally I'm a student of biology in "modern" Gen next era, if I've to apply science/logic in every scripture because of my "scientific" background I better commit suicide.

Myth is derived from Greek, doesn't mean false in today's sense. Egyptian, Hellenic, Roman scholars of yore held Myths as the historical legends associated with Gods. Now coming to ours, we don't have any such term Myth: it is paurANika/vaidika but definitely not non-historic.

The example I gave of 'anathema'. It was the equivalent of Greek 'prasad'. Got its current meaning because Christians wouldn't touch it. Now we aren't supposed to go around calling our own prasad 'anathema'. That would be foolish.

https://twitter.com/Shatrubhanja/status/1145371285330878464?s=19

Vaidik dharma lives in the Pauranik dharma, which lives in the heart of every Hindu.

Des Raj Goyal was an RSS swayamsevak who left the group & wrote about it. His history of the group's founding is particularly insightful. RSS co-founder Hedgewar, he wrote, wanted: "A militant gang which would not stand duality of allegiance either to persons or to principles."

"... were Dr. Moonje, Dr. Paranjpe, Dr. Hedgewar, Dr. Tholkar, & Babarao Savarkar. The RSS publications mention only the figure (5) & not the names perhaps because all of them were Hindu Mahasabha leaders & the RSS has been shy of owning up any relationship with the Mahasabha..."

https://twitter.com/FriedrichPieter/status/1145316779188719616?s=19

A little-known script from sultanate-era India may be a clue about the era’s multilingual culture

https://t.co/SHasYp2DRW https://t.co/cxBKI5WmMT

https://twitter.com/scroll_in/status/1145371416591773697?s=19

Mangoes turning saffron from green after Modi’s victory is a huge concern, activists say https://t.co/jcysv7KY1H

https://twitter.com/OpIndia_com/status/1145353800821006340?s=19

There’s no such thing as a “tech person” in the age of AI. Social problems are no longer limited for humanities folks and technical problems are no longer domain of scientists or engineers solely. https://t.co/oDhj71lQy6

https://twitter.com/abhisheksurana/status/1145376750265782272?s=19

Probably the best lecture to understand, de-stigmatize, & demystify #depression. If you are a care-giver or have a friend who is going through depressive disorders, this is a great resource to orient+educate yourself. Prof. Robert Sapolsky in Stanford: https://t.co/widSRzKrjG 1/3

https://twitter.com/varungrover/status/1145235224810287104?s=19

It talks about the multiple components (biological, psychological, sociological) that make one prone to depression & is very reassuring in its broad diagnosis of the struggle.

Sadly the video quality is bad but someone has thankfully put subtitles so it's easy to follow.

29 June 2019 marked the eighth death anniversary of K. D. Sethna. As our homage to him, an article titled ‘Years with my mentor: K. D. Sethna’ penned by Dr. Goutam Ghosal has been published in the website of Overman Foundation. To read Dr. Ghosal’s tribute to K. D. Sethna, kindly click on the following link: http://overmanfoundation.org/2019/06/30/years-with-my-mentor-k-d-sethna-by-goutam-ghosal/

With warm regards, Anurag Banerjee

#SriAurobindo

Cricket, chess, or tennis: see life through the learning lens

Assorted tweets:

The person who gave us Tuglak, Nagamandala, Bali, Hayavadana and more, also recreated Kurosawa's Seven Samurai in Kannada–Jnanapit Award winner, and littérateur, #GirishKarnad is no more. Karnataka can't thank you enough for your contribution. https://t.co/qD0X4kBDXF

https://twitter.com/ananthshreyas/status/1137935268910997506?s=19

With Girish Karnad's passing, I write for @newslaundry on the decline of India's once robust tradition of literary multilingualism - a tradition that informed, shaped Karnad's own work. I focus specifically on cosmopolitanism in #Kannada literature. https://t.co/AV5O4jGGNu

https://twitter.com/SandalBurn/status/1139847609911136256?s=19

Once upon a time, there was an India—a Karnataka—in which a #GirishKarnad could co-direct and do the screenplay for ‘Tabbaliyu Neenade Magane’, a movie based on a book of the same name by S.L. Bhyrappa (in Hindi as ‘Godhuli’). https://t.co/P7XflyrH2G

https://twitter.com/churumuri/status/1137962439599747072?s=19

Hahahahaha!  Sri Aurobindo listened to Baba Alauddin Khan for 4 hours frm his secluded room in Pondicherry. 2 hours in the morning n 2 in the evening. Said: " Alauddin n I were known to each other in our previous lives."

https://twitter.com/GoutamGhosal2/status/1142664029845856256?s=19

To do justice to multiple schools of philosophy from India, Aurobindo presents a recommended order of readings in the opening para here. https://t.co/I88JOa4gMm

(I am not recommending this recommendation, but sharing it to prompt the sharing of other such recommendations!)

https://twitter.com/longhandnotes/status/1142643210042261504?s=19

Each individual has to find the right intellectual resources by applying sufficient critical scrutiny. Chasing celebrities is an easy trap for adolescents to get misguided. Even education system or media can be misleading. Political preference also deprives of authentic knowledge

https://twitter.com/SavitriEraParty/status/1140681514390175744?s=19

High culture is almost synonymous with the higher consciousness stressed by The Mother & Sri Aurobindo. This in a way is antithetical to the folk and popular culture lapped up by the subaltern scholars and postmodernist sociologists. No doubt, a huge chasm exists; hard to bridge.

https://twitter.com/SavitriEraParty/status/1139824991736721408?s=19

There can be various opinions about the past which keeps on changing but the truth is that contact with European education and culture gave the Bengalis the first mover's advantage. Their position is secure in history; no one can dispute with that or remove them from the pedestal

https://twitter.com/NathTusar/status/1139373173680431104?s=19

Even after successive spiritual experiences, Sri Aurobindo chose the intellectual route to spread his synthetic knowledge and Integral vision. No single text can impart that and the right course perhaps is to rummage through one hundred primary volumes with a childlike curiosity.

https://twitter.com/SavitriEraParty/status/1142352498490871808?s=19

6) Hymns 33 - 38 (Verses 384 - 471):

Description of Rig-Veda, Mandala 01, Sukta 033 to 038 (including the journey of the Sun and the workings of the Maruts);

with #SriAurobindo's explanation of the basis of His psychological theory for translating the Vedas https://t.co/vmJtv5jrDo

https://twitter.com/Auro_Mere/status/1142497402563125248?s=19

“A change of consciousness is the whole meaning of the process of Yoga.” #SriAurobindo To commemorate #InternationalYogaDay2019, the SAFIC yoga class gave a  demonstration of Hathayoga, Yugma yoga (yoga in pairs), Mantra yoga -  all done as an offering to the Divine Mother. https://t.co/CsaR7K5HfB

https://twitter.com/AUROSAFIC/status/1142443177514811397?s=19

This book is an incisive rejoinder by Sri Aurobindo 2 Archer's proposition that entirety of Indian philosophy, religion, art, & literature was a mass of barbarism. Earlier titled ' Foundations of Indian Culture' it gives a holistic view of Hindu culture.

https://t.co/lAtYNy95AN https://t.co/TwAJfHLDWb

https://twitter.com/hindueshop/status/1142390207674646528?s=19

All credit goes to Vivek Madhav sir....he is tirelessly serving mother and sri aurobindo without thinking about any name fame

https://twitter.com/omram1206/status/1142459131493801984?s=19

The distinction between name and word is as the distinction between symbol and sign, and we see in this distinction between name and word, symbol and sign McGilchrist's distinction between Master and Emissary modes of attention -- the first and second attentions.

I think we can see here that Castaneda's use of the Toltec terms "nagual" and "tonal" for the 1st and 2nd attentions is the same as McGilchrist's "Master" and "Emissary" modes of the divided brain, and Aurobindo's "Sovereign" and "Minister" relation.

https://twitter.com/fourfoldvision/status/1142470518379036673?s=19

Do you have hurt feelings? Flight Of The Conchords has always helped me laugh at life's absurdities and might be one of the best written shows on TV. A musical parody that can only come from a place of pain. "It hurts our feelings when you say that we are not rappers." https://t.co/KDZeHcyHzN

https://twitter.com/coenesqued/status/1138498394081468416?s=19

"In the total darkness, poetry is still there, and it is there for you." Abbas Kiarostami, the beloved filmmaker who created some of the most inventive and transcendent cinema of all time, was born on this day in 1940. https://t.co/rGCLKRagpT

https://twitter.com/Criterion/status/1142402697934622720?s=19

Roger Ebert writes criticism and essays with poetic agility. Here is his work that led me to watch The Spirit of The Beehive (1973). A film with more secret cinematic influence on other filmmakers than you can shake a stick at. #HappyBirthdayRoger

https://t.co/KZIA0KIHdI https://t.co/dMM7l4BiTL

https://twitter.com/coenesqued/status/1141024551188353024?s=19

Is it at all a coincidence that film critic #RogerEbert's birthday falls on the exact same day as #TheWildBunch's 50th anniversary? I think not. Check out Ebert's Great Movies list at https://t.co/3iMiC0L2Fe with his great Tough Guy entries, including the Bunch! #ToughGuyTuesday https://t.co/PHPN2W0Vdt

https://twitter.com/RanesHook/status/1141070890974814208?s=19

The decline of democracy will be reversed only if the U.S. again takes up the mantle of democracy promotion, writes @LarryDiamond, but to do so effectively, it first has to repair its own broken democracy. https://t.co/OyevtaCSGa

https://twitter.com/ForeignAffairs/status/1142668012195123200?s=19

I'm an analytic philosopher who just recently discovered the propaganda against continental philosophy is wrong. Sartre, De Beauvoir, Maurice Merleau Ponty (or MMP for friends), Fanon. What should I do? What are some good overview works on these people (or others?)

https://twitter.com/Helenreflects/status/1142550306527428608?s=19

There's a gigantic but interesting book on Levinas by Michael Morgan, "Discovering Levinas"—it's nice for us because he compares and contrasts him with analytic philosophers like Korsgaard, Darwall, etc. It risks anachronisms but #YOLO.

https://t.co/wrbXPgO2DH

https://twitter.com/philoshua/status/1142606377619210241?s=19

Explore #Foucault's thoughts on homosexuality in this OUP blog. A major influence on #queertheory, he examined the issues of power, repression, and sexuality and the ways in which societies penalize those who reject the norms #PrideMonth #philosopherOTM  https://t.co/OuI06CYOcq

https://twitter.com/OUPPhilosophy/status/1142401879009136641?s=19

Gutenberg did not invent the printing press: https://t.co/GKQXAA0Xx6 | Remarkable. I remember the headache the Pakistanis caused the W Germans in the late 1940s when they asked for an Urdu typewriter. For Chinese and Korean...

https://twitter.com/orsoraggiante/status/1142631009835352065?s=19

I guess a lesson here for the Rest is to invest in History and not hand over national narratives to European and American universities. But alas, not even bad narratives can be replaced by quackery!

So his YouTube videos will also be a pile of snippets I guess, just like his hollow  snippet analysis of rrmr, sv etc :) and iirc, some even recommended a chairperson seat for him in ICHR or whatever https://t.co/ftL8oqKW5u

https://twitter.com/iridines/status/1142466553381658624?s=19

Nothing on earth probably matches premodern/modern  bengali literature, it's a mix of rationality, mysticism, culture, poetry that exceeds the best of music, yoga, vedanta. But it's roots to this magnificent blooming lie in the charja poems of deha tattva from a millennium back. https://t.co/V0U0tjZkKi

https://twitter.com/iridines/status/1142416919254818817?s=19

Doesn't matter what u admire or not, or ur zeal in seeking percentage of sanskrit in regional langs, and neither is sanskrit proportion the yardstick to judge literary quality, the flow of thoughts&ideas can come in any decent language,pre-modern bengali lit carries best of it. https://t.co/sLV7BeYoIy

https://twitter.com/iridines/status/1142474180648062982?s=19

From the perspective of the exegetical imperative towards comprehensive synthesis, any religion or spirituality that defines itself fundamentally oppositionally, against another idea or version of religion; atheism, Satanism, SBNR, etc. fails as both religion and spirituality.

Challenge of Panikkar’s pluralism and the path dependent imperatives of the comparative history of religions collide. Not necessarily in opposition...

https://twitter.com/krumbbumm/status/1142511379712098305?s=19

Teach British tourists the truth about empire – they can take it https://t.co/PXdMS8zdbt

I have a problem wth judging cultural artefacts by 'moral' standards. Whether u are RW nd dont want anti-Hindutva stuff like Leila up or liberal nd dont want misogynist Kabir Singh shown, u r in the same camp which thinks it has th right 2 tell every1 what they CAN consume. Stfu

https://twitter.com/utterflea/status/1142678285291098112?s=19

Judge a work by its quality. Does th premise work, is it successful in creating a world, do u c th POV of th charactrs, does it add to your understanding?

2 say something shld not be made or shown or outrage based on its 'moral' shortcomings is the sign of a closed mind.

Kerala has 'great' female gender indices but toxic masculinity is still present in popular culture/everyday life. Many feminists have written how rape scenes were so common in mainstream cinema there. Again, no paradox. Gender indices do not capture intensity of patriarchy. https://t.co/Z25Rdx2hpV

https://twitter.com/varunpatilbeng1/status/1142357844605280256?s=19

Rude Food: Did Coldplay appropriate our culture?Did George Harrison appropriate Indian music?Is Gordon Ramsay appropriating Asian food at his new London restaurant?

Of course not.Indians have always welcomed the cross fertilisation of food & culture https://t.co/JY7tQdovvU

https://twitter.com/virsanghvi/status/1142664325850550272?s=19

If we didn't welcome outside ideas I dont think I would have ever been able to eat Chinese. I can only eat the desified version( I know I know!). Bring it all on and let there be Indian influences everywhere so that all of us can enjoy new food everywhere we go.

https://twitter.com/princesssiggy/status/1142667471649988610?s=19

Not just food, imagine how unidimensional our lives would have been if there weren’t any cross border influences in our language, music, art, literature, clothing etc. It would be a sad colourless life!!

https://twitter.com/ranchisparrow/status/1142667425567014912?s=19

The beauty of learning from this great game...Shami makes a statement with a strong comeback. Cricket teaches you so much about life if you're observing closely #cricketlife

https://twitter.com/shishhattangadi/status/1142685069737259008?s=19

I used to think this is unique to cricket. Then I realised chess also does that. Then tennis. Finally realised that when you see life through the learning lens, you could actually be learning all the time. And growing! #growthmindset https://t.co/MVOEdLjsG0

https://twitter.com/bvhk/status/1142685714162888704?s=19

Sahib, Bibi aur Ghulam? Addictive. So much more impactful than the Devdas cult and gave so much space to the women characters. https://t.co/FFeDNiGSUW

https://twitter.com/ammarawrites/status/1142685512391700482?s=19

Prachi Valley: Odisha's Best Kept Secret !

Ancient Prachi river is a part of Mahanadi n is termed as the Saraswati (holiest) river of the east. It has witnessed the co-existence of various religion ideologies like Jainism, Buddhism,Shaivism, Shaktism & Vaishnavism #PrachiValley https://t.co/N10pM1yfVW

https://twitter.com/TaraniTrotter/status/1139595269182390272?s=19

Nowhere in India can one find such a confluence of diff cultures & cults in this small stretch of river valley. Its undoubtedly the mine for archaeologists, historians, scholars etc #PrachiValley #SavePrachi

Loc: Rameswar Temple, Nuasasan, Cuttack @ashishsarangi https://t.co/xC2yZTjyyR

https://twitter.com/TaraniTrotter/status/1139606463779725314?s=19

Oh really sir ! Many places in Odisha have a suffix as 'lo', Kantilo, Brahmanajharilo, Sisilo etc. Sailo might be related with saila (stone) i.e Shailodbhavas (born from stone) dynasty (6-8th cent)

https://twitter.com/TaraniTrotter/status/1139831957871665153?s=19

Plasim Radar

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Posted by Tusar Nath Mohapatra at 7:48 PM

Location: Shipra Riviera, Indirapuram, Ghaziabad, Uttar Pradesh 201014, India

One must crawl before one can walk

"Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D."

...

Vinod,

The soul as a bundle of consciousness is self aware also like the universal consciousness.  In Samadhi state, which you often mention, the soul is not inert, it is conscious; conscious of itself even if it does not see anything else.  In other states, when the soul identifies itself with a body and its mind, it does not know its real nature and considers itself limited as if in a bondage.  Even in ordinary lives the individual consciousness (ego?) appears to know whatever it is doing and its own existence, etc. So, I do not see why you say "The "seer" due to it being "seer: of everything can't see itself".

Syamala

On Wednesday, May 29, 2019, 1:15:05 AM CDT, VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL wrote:

Rosie,

Let me add that soul as a bundle of consciousness can never be seen since soul or consciousness itself is the "seer" of everything. The "seer" due to it being "seer: of everything can't see itself. Hereby the word "seer" is not limited to the process of seeing using the sense organs of eyes. But the word "seer" has an extended meaning of "knowing/experiencing" anything thru perceptual ability using 5 sense organs or thru the cognitive ability.

So what is seen by the medium? It is the astral body with soul encompassed in it which is seen by the medium. The Astral body can be seen in different colors, shapes, sizes, structures, and configurations. The astral body, at the will of the conscious soul, can assume any shape/size/colour.

Vinod Sehgal

On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 3:36 AM 'Ram Lakhan Pandey Vimal' via Scientific Basis of Consciousness wrote:

Hi Rosie,

It is indeed interesting, but what are the scientific evidence, mechanism, and metaphysics (dualism, idealism, materialism, or dual-aspect monism) behind it?

Cheers!

Kind regards,

Rām

Rām Lakhan Pāndey Vimal, Ph.D.

Amarāvati-Hīrāmaṇi Professor (Research)

Vision Research Institute Inc, Physics, Neuroscience, & Consciousness Research Dept.

25 Rita Street, Lowell, MA 01854 USA

Ph: +1 978 954 7522; eFAX: +1 440 388 7907

rlpvimal@yahoo.co.in; http://sites.google.com/site/rlpvimal/Home

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ram_Lakhan_Pandey_Vimal 

Researched at the University of Chicago and Harvard Medical Schools

On Tuesday, 28 May, 2019, 3:59:57 pm GMT-4, Rosemary Rock-Evans wrote:

Well Ram, this may be of interest to you - you may have to share heaven with the immortal souls of spiders...

And Randi, it may help you too, as here are two cases where a medium sees the immortal soul of animals

https://allaboutheaven.org/observations/ernesto_bozzano_professor_-_the_parapsychological_manifestations_of_animals_%E2%80%93_43_the_death_of_a_spider_results_in_its_spirit_being_seen_flying_away_by_a_medium/221

rosie

...

"Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." group. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga

To view this discussion https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/695289015.255215.1559616053607%40mail.yahoo.com

...

Hi Deepak, Irad, and Whit,

Interesting discussion. Perhaps, we can make further progress on the life-after-death issue with the following experiments. 

Deepak: Did Sadhguru mention that he has "seen"/experienced the other side of the iron-wall where science cannot yet penetrate? He also seems to mention that he was declared dead/brain-dead during a meditation-related experiment, which may imply he had no detectable NCC during his Samadhi state and he was out of his brain-body. If so, then he may be an important subject in the following experiments. [...]

From Sections 3.8.13.5 of (Vimal, 2016b) and 3.19.10 of (Vimal, 2016c), the working hypothesis and the three experiments on OOO-God theory are as follows:

A working hypothesis is as follows:

No mental entity (such as astral body, causal body, soul/Self, or God) is beyond our mind-brain-body system. It appears beyond only through the incompleteness of our knowledge such as related to the out-of-body experience (OBE). A complete knowledge must include the fact that an OBE has a neural-physical basis. Thus, enlightened yogis, mystics, and people who propose life-after-death appear to disregard the knowledge related to neuroscience that all experiences, including 21 astral entities seen in Savikalpa Samādhi (NS) state by Swami Yogeshwaranand Paramhansa (SYP) (Swāmi Yogeshwarānanda Paramhans, 1997, 2008) and OBEs at Nirvikalpa Samādhi (NS) state, have their respective neural bases and all mental entities are within the scope of mind-brain systems. [...]

Cheers!

Kind regards,

Rām

On Mon, Jun 03, 2019 at 09:07:12AM -0400, Irad Bernstein wrote:

> [DC] Right now everyone’s allegiance is split. We identify with our bodies some

> of the time and with our minds the rest of the time.

> 

> [I] Our thoughts are just as natural as the cells in our body, and as real.

> There is no split between the mental, the spiritual, and the physical. If you

> think so, you do not sufficiently understand the spirituality of the flesh or

> the physical reality of your thought. 

Irad,

"Natural" compared to what? I look out the window. The trees on the hill are

natural; our houses are constructed. Our houses are constructed of natural

materials; but the construction is based in human culture. 

Our minds, our thoughts, are to an important degree more like our homes than

the wild woods. Even to the degree they are alive and growing, unlike the

tree parts which are the walls of my house, it is in important ways a

cultured growth, dependent as agriculture is on the cultivator. 

There is, though, an irony in the common claim that the physical world is

deterministic, while our minds introduce freedom. Contrast that with the

medieval concept that it is our bodies which are wild, and our minds

responsible for disciplined restraint. 

In any case, where the cells in our body are natural, thoughts, being of

mind, and dependent on our cultures, are quite another thing. Those raised

by wolves do not, reportedly, have thoughts as we do. Their cells are

indistinguishable from ours though.

Best,

Whit

...

And there may have been earlier invasions of which we have not found records. As I commented to Adam Kun earlier today, the Cryogenic Period (with Snowball Earth) may have obliterated both them and their remains.

Continued tomorrow.

Peter Nyikos

...

Yes, David, but when it came to the venerable Linnean classification scheme as refined by great naturalists like Alfred Romer, you became very intolerant about the degrees of uncertainty that it coped with very well indeed. 

I'll have more to say about your actual words in my next installment to the series of answers that you gave to some questions of mine about the riddles of macroevolution.  

Peter Nyikos

...

David: 

If all you are interested in is increasingly accurate phylogenetic trees, then I have no quarrel with you. My quarrel is with those victors of "the cladist wars" who are working to abolish the Linnean classification altogether. 

I would dearly love to see a history of those wars. My only real glimpse into their workings is the salmon-lungfish-cow debate, and the two accounts of it that I have seen -- one by Henry Gee and the other by the author of an otherwise wonderful book on the coelacanth Latimeria - - are so inept that I suspect that the victory was totally undeserved. And these two are foursquare on the side of the victors. The wars, I suspect, were over before the traditional systematists knew what hit them. 

Their victory is not yet complete: Kardong  actually gave more space to an outline of the Linnean classification of Chordata than to the cladistic in an appendix to his 2012 edition of his textbook that is used here for the course in Comparative Vertebrate Anatomy.

It is of inestimable value pedagogically to have animals broken down into phyla. There is an old educational adage, "One must crawl before one can walk."  Elementary school children can easily learn about the main ones  to the point where they can easily tell which of the following a given animal belongs to: Cnidaria, Echinodermata, Chordata, Mollusca, Arthropoda.  And  I doubt that any anatomist  worth his salt would confuse a living member of one phylum with another. 

...

Irrationality is very much part of the uniqueness of our inner cosmos, as is our rationality. Instead of playing one against the other our irrationality can be managed and rituals play an important role in it.  https://t.co/wT939wJUao via @swarajyamag

https://twitter.com/arvindneela/status/1136506585491001344?s=19

Just a very humble suggestion: Every Hindutvaite should familiarize oneself with 

a) works of Vivekananda, Sri Aurobindo, Savarkar, Gandhi and Ambedkar

b) works of Carl Sagan, Fritjof Capra (not just 'Tao of Physics'), Michael Shermer and James Randi -particularly ministers.

https://twitter.com/arvindneela/status/1135729657301495808?s=19

Carl Sagan and Michael Shermer and Randi for immunizing themselves against pseudo-science peddlers and also to save us from getting embarrassed by our leaders talking 'ancient-alien' type nonsense.

is this what Stephen Jay Gould calls NOMA- Non overlapping magisteria? 

Problem is how do we switch between the 2 modes of thinking? Eg see the irrational "anti-vaccination" movement in the US & Pakistan which could cause a serious health hazard

https://twitter.com/ChandhokHursh/status/1136510257558167552?s=19

I have not read him but many perceptive persons are recommending the books by Nigurananda (Professor Sachidananda Sarkar). You may check. There would be many others like him.

https://twitter.com/NathTusar/status/1139376396042588171?s=19

Plain & Simple: A non-fiction novel about Auroville https://t.co/CqBX0uqINP

Savitri Era Learning Forum: Aesthetics like nutrition should seek the right-mix https://t.co/yO1kstnTKy

Reimagining and Refashioning Integral Management - Tusar Nath Mohapatra, Savitri Era Learning Forum (SELF) Ghaziabad https://t.co/YGoEhdLyp7